Episodes

20 minutes ago
20 minutes ago
In a special episode of the Curious Task, Matt sits down with James Tooley and Robyn Mulcahy at Blueberry Creek Forest School and Nature Centre to discuss the benefits of private education, outdoor education programs including forest schools and the history of approaches around the globe that strive to offer students a more well-rounded alternative to government schools.
References:
James’ profile at the University of Buckingham:
https://www.buckingham.ac.uk/directory/professor-james-tooley/
Robyn’s bio on re-cognition:
https://re-cognition.ca/portfolio-item/educators/
Blueberry Creek Nature Centre:
https://re-cognition.ca/home-page/blueberry-creek-forest-and-nature-centre/
James’ Book “The Beautiful Tree”:
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Including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit:

Wednesday May 07, 2025
Alan Elrod - How Should Liberals Think About Children?
Wednesday May 07, 2025
Wednesday May 07, 2025
Janet speaks with Alan Elrod to explore how classical liberalism understands the role of children in a free society. They discuss the liberal view of children as future autonomous individuals, the responsibilities of both parents and the state in their development, and how education sits at the center of ongoing ideological battles. Elrod unpacks the liberal commitment to individual flourishing and critiques contemporary efforts to politicize childhood through authoritarian or illiberal frameworks.
References
“Children Are the Future: Authoritarianism, Culture War and Making Model Citizens” by Alan Elrod
https://www.liberalcurrents.com/children-are-the-future-authoritarianism-culture-war-and-making-model-citizens/
“Parents, Government and Children: Authority over Education in the Liberal Pluralist State” by William A. Galston (Chapter in Liberal Pluralism)
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/liberal-pluralism/parents-government-and-children-authority-over-education-in-the-liberal-pluralist-state/4FEF2172B5BD8B088A4D0558C11E1A1B
The Open Society and Its Enemies by Karl Popper
https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/O/bo3619943.html
Democratic Education by Amy Gutmann
https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt7sdfv
On Liberty by John Stuart Mill
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/34901
Taking Responsibility for Children edited by Samantha Brennan and Robert Noggle
https://www.wlupress.wlu.ca/Books/T/Taking-Responsibility-for-Children
Thanks to Our Patrons
Including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit:
https://patreon.com/curioustask

Wednesday Apr 30, 2025
Chris Freiman — Is it Okay to Ignore Politics?
Wednesday Apr 30, 2025
Wednesday Apr 30, 2025
In this conversation from 2020, Alex Aragona speaks with Christopher Freiman as he explores why you might be happier, and ultimately contribute more to society, if you choose to ignore politics.
References from Episode 31 with Chris Freiman:

Wednesday Apr 23, 2025
Graeme Thompson - What Is Canada's Role In The World?
Wednesday Apr 23, 2025
Wednesday Apr 23, 2025
Alex Aragona speaks with Graeme Thompson about Canada's evolving role on the global stage, from Confederation through to the post-Cold War era and into the geopolitical uncertainties of today. They explore Canada’s historical balancing act between major powers, its close alignment with the United Kingdom and later the United States, and its present-day challenges in maintaining global relevance amid military underinvestment and economic stagnation. Thompson argues that Canada must become more serious about geopolitics if it wants to protect its sovereignty and remain influential internationally.
References
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“Canadians no longer take geopolitics seriously – and our neglect is going to cost us” by Graeme Thompson (The Hub)
https://thehub.ca/2024-04-03/graeme-thompson-canadians-no-longer-take-geopolitics-seriously-and-our-neglect-is-going-to-cost-us/ -
Biography Collection: Ogdensburg Agreement and Canadian Wartime Diplomacy (Dictionary of Canadian Biography)
https://www.biographi.ca/en/topics/topic-match-list.php?id=1504 -
Statute of Westminster (1931) – Recognized Canada’s legislative independence from Britain
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/statute-of-westminster -
NATO Archives: Canada's Role and Early Involvement
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/declassified_161511.htm -
Canada–U.S. Automotive Products Agreement (Auto Pact)
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/canada-us-automotive-products-agreement -
Lament for a Nation by George Grant
https://a.co/d/bnRI7Rb -
Canada’s Military Expenditure and NATO’s 2% Spending Target (Parliamentary Budget Officer)
https://www.pbo-dpb.ca/en/publications/RP-2223-010-S--canada-military-expenditure-nato-2-spending-target--depenses-militaires-canada-objectif-depenses-2-otan
Thanks to Our Patrons
Including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit:
https://patreon.com/curioustask

Wednesday Apr 16, 2025
Iain Murray - What Has Happened to Conservatism?
Wednesday Apr 16, 2025
Wednesday Apr 16, 2025
In this episode from 2023, Matt speaks with Iain Murray about the estrangement of conservative liberalism from identitarian forms of conservative nationalism and the intriguing alliances that may arise in the future between freedom-loving libertarians and some unlikely allies.
Episode Notes:
Iain's book "The Socialist Temptation" https://a.co/d/5AUQHQp
One of Iain's articles on the subject https://cei.org/blog/european-populism-is-nationalist-conservatism/
"Do Libertarians Have a Political Home Anymore?" by Iain Murray https://www.acton.org/religion-liberty/volume-35-number-1-2/do-libertarians-have-political-home-anymore
Summary of Hillbilly Elegy by JD Vance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillbilly_Elegy
Ezra Klein's comment on "Everything Bagel Liberalism" https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/02/opinion/democrats-liberalism.html

Wednesday Apr 09, 2025
What Happened To The Carbon Tax? - Franco Terrazzano
Wednesday Apr 09, 2025
Wednesday Apr 09, 2025
Matt speaks with Franco Terrazzano about the carbon tax within the broader context of government spending, taxation, and fiscal responsibility in Canada. They discuss the impact of high government debt, the role of the federal budget, and the long-term consequences of deficit spending. Terrazzano critiques the federal carbon tax, arguing that it places an unnecessary burden on Canadians while failing to achieve its intended environmental goals, and points to some glaring instances of hypocrisy on the part of its supporters.
References
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Axing the Tax: 100 Simple and Painless Ways to Save Money on Your Taxes by Franco Terrazzano
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"Carbon tax costs average Ontario family $627 this year" by Franco Terrazzano (Canadian Taxpayers Federation)
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"PBO confirms carbon tax costs more than rebates" by Franco Terrazzano (Canadian Taxpayers Federation)
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"Carbon tax bureaucracy costs taxpayers $800 million" by Franco Terrazzano (Canadian Taxpayers Federation)
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"Cut taxes and government spending to combat inflation" by Franco Terrazzano (EnergyNow)
Thanks to Our Patrons
Including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit:
https://patreon.com/curioustask

Wednesday Apr 02, 2025
Graeme Thompson — What Is Canadian Liberalism?
Wednesday Apr 02, 2025
Wednesday Apr 02, 2025
In this episode from 2021, Alex Aragona speaks with Graeme Thompson about the classical liberal tradition in Canada, and what the evolution of that tradition has looked like.
References from The Curious Task Episode 94 with Graeme Thompson
- A collection of the speeches of Wilfred Laurier can be found in an edited edition by Arthur Milnes, available from Amazon here.
- Macdonald Laurier and the Election of 1891 by Christopher Pennington can be found from Penguin House here.
- Graeme Thompson’s piece “Whatever Happened to Laurier” can be found in the National Post here.
- Graeme mentions positive and negative liberty by Isaiah Berlin, which is discussed on the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy here.
- The works of Adam Smith, Edmund Burke, and J.S. Mill can be read for free through the Online Library of Liberty.

Wednesday Mar 26, 2025
Matt McManus - Is Liberal Socialism An Oxymoron?
Wednesday Mar 26, 2025
Wednesday Mar 26, 2025
Matt Bufton speaks with Matt McManus about the philosophical foundations of liberalism and socialism, exploring how these two traditions intersect and diverge. They discuss McManus’ work on the political theory of liberal socialism, the historical tensions between the two ideologies, and the ways in which contemporary political movements reflect aspects of both. The conversation also touches on critiques of classical liberal thought, the role of the state in economic justice, and the potential for a synthesis between liberal and socialist principles.
References
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The Political Theory of Liberal Socialism by Matt McManus
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A Critical Legal Examination of Liberalism and Liberal Rights by Matt McManus
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Liberalism and Socialism: Mortal Enemies or Embittered Kin? (Edited by Matt McManus)
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Why Socialists Shouldn’t Reject Liberalism An interview with
Matt McManus (Jacobin Magazine) -
Matt's portfolio on Academia.edu
Thanks to Our Patrons
Including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit:
https://patreon.com/curioustask

Wednesday Mar 19, 2025
James R. Harrigan - What Is Going On Down There?
Wednesday Mar 19, 2025
Wednesday Mar 19, 2025
Alex Aragona speaks with James Harrigan about U.S.-Canada relations, with a focus on tariffs, trade policy, and economic misunderstandings that shape political discourse. James critiques the expansion of tariffs under Trump and challenges the idea that protectionism helps domestic industries. The conversation highlights the historical benefits of free trade, the consequences of government intervention in markets, and the flawed assumptions underlying modern trade restrictions.
References
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James on X:
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The Centre for American Culture and Ideas:
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The Words And Numbers Podcast:
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"Fair Trade Encourages Free Trade" by James Harrigan and Antony Davies:
Thanks to our patrons, including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit https://patreon.com/curioustask.

Wednesday Mar 12, 2025
Don Boudreaux - Why Are We In A Trade War?
Wednesday Mar 12, 2025
Wednesday Mar 12, 2025
Matt Bufton speaks with Don Boudreaux about tariffs, free trade, and the economic misunderstandings that drive protectionist policies. Don critiques the balance of trade doctrine, drawing from historical examples and economic theory to explain why tariffs harm both consumers and producers. The discussion covers the impact of tariffs on the U.S. and Canada, how politicians exploit economic misconceptions, and why a policy of unilateral free trade would be the best path forward.
References
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Globalization by Don Boudreaux
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The Essential Hayek by Don Boudreaux
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"The Case for Free Trade" by Don Boudreaux (Mercatus Center)
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"Don't Get Played By Protectionists" (Cafe Hayek)
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"On America's Trade Deficit With China" by Don Boudreaux
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"Adam Smith Doesn't Like U.S. Trade Policy" by Stuart Anderson
Thanks to our patrons, including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit https://patreon.com/curioustask.

Wednesday Mar 05, 2025
Ryan Manucha - What's Stopping Interprovincial Trade?
Wednesday Mar 05, 2025
Wednesday Mar 05, 2025
Matt Bufton speaks with Ryan Manucha about interprovincial trade in Canada, focusing on the legal and economic barriers that hinder free trade between provinces. They discuss Ryan’s book Booze, Cigarettes, and Constitutional Dust-Ups, examining how constitutional law, historical disputes, and political inertia have shaped Canada’s fragmented trade landscape. The conversation explores key legal cases, the role of the Supreme Court, and potential reforms that could enhance economic cooperation across the country.
References
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Booze, Cigarettes, and Constitutional Dust-Ups: Canada's Quest for Interprovincial Free Trade by Ryan Manucha
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Gold Seal Ltd. v. Alberta (Attorney-General) (1921) – Key legal case on interprovincial trade barriers
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R. v. Comeau (2018) – Supreme Court decision on cross-border alcohol sales
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Interprovincial Trade Barriers in Canada: Options for Moving Forward by Alvarez et al.
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Provincial Red Tape Report Card by the Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CFIB)
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Internal Trade in Canada: Case for Liberalization by the International Monetary Fund (IMF)
Thanks to our patrons, including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit https://patreon.com/curioustask.

Wednesday Feb 26, 2025
Bart Wilson - What Do Economists Miss?
Wednesday Feb 26, 2025
Wednesday Feb 26, 2025
Matt speaks with Bart Wilson about what economists often overlook in their analysis—specifically, the role of morality, human cooperation, and language in shaping economic behaviour. Wilson argues that mainstream economics tends to focus too much on scarcity and efficiency while neglecting the deeper social and moral foundations that make trade and prosperity possible. Drawing on his book Meaningful Economics: Making the Science of Prosperity More Human, he explores how concepts like property, reciprocity, and justice emerge from human relationships rather than being imposed from the top down.
References:
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Meaningful Economics: Making the Science of Prosperity More Human by Bart Wilson
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/meaningful-economics-9780197758151?cc=us&lang=en& -
The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
https://a.co/d/j0nL0mY -
The Theory of Moral Sentiments by Adam Smith
https://a.co/d/iKwedtg -
Knowledge and Decisions by Thomas Sowell
https://a.co/d/cRgCwe4 -
The Invisible Heart: An Economic Romance by Russell Roberts
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/0262681358 - Frankenstein by Mary Shelley https://a.co/d/a7vAUsi
Thanks to our patrons, including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit our Patreon page.

Wednesday Feb 19, 2025
Tim Thurley - Are Canada's Gun Policies Off-Target?
Wednesday Feb 19, 2025
Wednesday Feb 19, 2025
Alex Aragona speaks with Tim Thurley about gun policy in Canada, discussing the current state of firearm regulations, the shift away from a past political consensus, and whether recent legislative changes are effectively targeting crime. They explore the role of licensing, background checks, and storage laws, as well as the impact of smuggled firearms and high-profile policy changes like Bill C-21 and the handgun freeze. Thurley argues that recent policy shifts focus on legal gun owners while failing to address the main sources of gun crime in Canada.
References
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"Aiming Off Target: Gun Policy in Canada" by Tim Thurley & Noah Schwartz (Macdonald-Laurier Institute)
https://macdonaldlaurier.ca/aiming-off-target-gun-policy-canada/ -
"On gun control, Liberals opt for wedge politics over actual change" by Noah Schwartz
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/noah-schwartz-on-gun-control-liberals-opt-for-wedge-politics-over-actual-change -
"More Guns, Less Crime" by John R. Lott Jr.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/0226493660 -
"The Culture of Fear: Why Americans Are Afraid of the Wrong Things" by Barry Glassner
https://a.co/d/4qXgBqf -
"The Origins and Development of Canada’s Firearms Laws" by R. Blake Brown
https://a.co/d/bMb4zyV -
"Armed: New Perspectives on Gun Control" by Gary Kleck & Don B. Kates
https://a.co/d/5xk3gUj
Thanks to our patrons, including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit https://patreon.com/curioustask.

Wednesday Feb 12, 2025
Ethan Nadelmann - Is Vaping A Public Health Problem?
Wednesday Feb 12, 2025
Wednesday Feb 12, 2025
Matt speaks with Ethan Nadelmann about vaping, e-cigarettes, and pouch nicotine alternatives to cigarettes within the broader context of health policy and the drug war. They discuss the misconceptions surrounding nicotine, harm reduction strategies, and how opposition to non-combustible nicotine mirrors past drug war policies. Ethan highlights international case studies, the role of public health organizations, and the influence of figures like Michael Bloomberg in shaping the global discourse - and misinformation - around alternatives to cigarettes.
References
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"Thinking Seriously About Alternatives to Drug Prohibition" by Ethan Nadelmann
https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/20027122.pdf -
"The Global State of Tobacco Harm Reduction" (KAC Reports)
https://gsthr.org/ -
"High Price" by Carl Hart
https://a.co/d/inDX5Gi -
"Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness" by Richard H. Thaler & Cass R. Sunstein
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/014311526X -
"Ending the War on Drugs: A Solution for America" by Dirk Chase Eldredge
https://a.co/d/bIGQpJ6
Thanks to our patrons, including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit https://patreon.com/curioustask.

Wednesday Feb 05, 2025
Eric Schliesser - Do Liberals Focus Too Much On Freedom From Restrictions?
Wednesday Feb 05, 2025
Wednesday Feb 05, 2025
Alex speaks with Eric Schliesser about the "freedom to" vs. "freedom from" debate in political theory, using Serene Khader’s book Faux Feminism as a central reference. They explore the historical distinction between negative and positive liberty, the role of hierarchy in structuring freedom, and how liberalism’s focus on removing restrictions can sometimes reinforce existing power structures. The discussion touches on feminist theory, liberal political thought, and broader critiques of market-based individualism.
References
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Faux Feminism: Why We Fall for White Feminism and How We Can Stop by Serene Khader
https://a.co/d/fFRt6op -
Liberal Legislation and Freedom of Contract by T.H. Green
https://history.hanover.edu/texts/green.html -
Two Concepts of Liberty by Isaiah Berlin
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberty-positive-negative/ -
The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
https://a.co/d/6YWK7bA -
The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt
https://www.amazon.ca/Origins-Totalitarianism-Hannah-Arendt/dp/0156701537 -
Capitalism and Freedom by Milton Friedman
https://www.amazon.ca/Capitalism-Freedom-Milton-Friedman/dp/022673479X
Thanks to our patrons, including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit https://patreon.com/curioustask.

Wednesday Jan 29, 2025
Ryan Thorpe and Matt Bufton - Is There A Role For A State Broadcaster?
Wednesday Jan 29, 2025
Wednesday Jan 29, 2025
Alex Aragona moderates a discussion with Ryan Thorpe and Matt Bufton about the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) and its relevance in today’s world. They explore the CBC’s historical mission to promote Canadian culture and information, its struggles to meet its mandate, and the challenges posed by media fragmentation and perceived biases. The conversation also touches on the roles of private media, government funding, and the rise of independent outlets as alternatives to a state broadcaster.
References
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Lament for a Nation: The Defeat of Canadian Nationalism by George Grant
https://www.amazon.ca/Lament-Nation-Defeat-Canadian-Nationalism/dp/077353010X -
Peter Mansbridge Quote on CBC’s "Toronto Bias"
https://youtu.be/8c0HWFg9dpw?si=3Uo8DXe7MPMNRWyY -
Canadaland
https://www.canadaland.com/ -
The Hub
https://thehub.ca/ -
The Narwhal
https://thenarwhal.ca/ -
The Tyee
https://thetyee.ca/
Thanks to our patrons, including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit https://patreon.com/curioustask.

Wednesday Jan 22, 2025
Steve Davies - Why Is Politics Today So Weird?
Wednesday Jan 22, 2025
Wednesday Jan 22, 2025
In this episode, host Matt Bufton interviews historian Steve Davies about the political realignment happening across the Western world. Steve explains how traditional divisions in politics, such as socialism versus capitalism, have been replaced by a new axis centered on nationalism versus globalism. He critiques both "national collectivism" and "technocratic liberal progressivism" while discussing the implications for classical liberalism. The conversation also touches on the influence of leaders like Donald Trump, Justin Trudeau, and Emmanuel Macron, and explores what the future holds for liberal ideas in a shifting political landscape.
References
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"The Great Realignment: Understanding Politics Today" by Steve Davies (Cato Institute)
https://www.cato-unbound.org/2018/12/10/stephen-davies/great-realignment-understanding-politics-today/ -
Steve Davies' talk at the IEA's THINK event
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GVMnQ4-_cQ -
"The Road to Serfdom" by Friedrich Hayek
https://www.amazon.ca/Road-Serfdom-Friedrich-Hayek/dp/0226320553 -
"Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy" by Joseph A. Schumpeter
https://www.amazon.ca/Capitalism-Socialism-Democracy-Joseph-Schumpeter/dp/0061330086 -
"The Origins of Political Order: From Prehuman Times to the French Revolution" by Francis Fukuyama
https://www.amazon.ca/Origins-Political-Order-Prehuman-Revolution/dp/0374227349 -
"Leviathan" by Thomas Hobbes
https://www.amazon.ca/Leviathan-Thomas-Hobbes/dp/0140431950 -
"The Constitution of Liberty" by Friedrich Hayek
https://www.amazon.ca/Constitution-Liberty-Friedrich-Hayek/dp/0226320847
Thanks to our patrons, including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit https://patreon.com/curioustask.

Wednesday Jan 15, 2025
Jacob Levy - Why Is Montesquieu Important For Liberalism?
Wednesday Jan 15, 2025
Wednesday Jan 15, 2025
In this conversation from 2021, Alex speaks with Jacob Levy about Montesquieu's role in shaping contemporary political science, the American revolutionary project, and the role of the separation of powers as a bulwark against despotism.
References
1. “Rationalism, Pluralism, and Freedom” by Jacob Levy
Link: https://www.amazon.ca/Rationalism-Pluralism-Freedom-Jacob-Levy/dp/0198808917
2. “The Multiculturalism of Fear” by Jacob Levy
Link: https://www.amazon.ca/Multiculturalism-Fear-Jacob-T-Levy/dp/0198297122
3. “Montesquieu’s Constitutional Legacies” by Jacob Levy
Link: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1117087
4. “Beyond Publius: Montesquieu, Liberal Republicanism, and the Small-Republic Thesis” by Jacob Levy
Link: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=739447
5. “The Spirit of Laws” by Charles Baron de Montesquieu
6. “Leviathan” by Thomas Hobbes
Link: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3207/3207-h/3207-h.htm
7. “Second Treatise of Government” by John Locke
Link: https://www.gutenberg.org/files/7370/7370-h/7370-h.htm

Wednesday Jan 08, 2025
Victor M. Muniz-Fraticelli - Is Monarchy Absurd?
Wednesday Jan 08, 2025
Wednesday Jan 08, 2025
In this episode from 2021, Alex Aragona speaks with Victor M. Muniz-Fraticelli about whether the monarchy might seem absurd, and whether a little absurdity can be a good thing.
References
1. “The Monarchy and the Constitution” by Vernon Bogdanor
Link: https://www.amazon.ca/Monarchy-Constitution-Vernon-Bogdanor/dp/0198293348

Wednesday Jan 01, 2025
Neera Badhwar - Are Liberal Societies More Moral And Virtuous?
Wednesday Jan 01, 2025
Wednesday Jan 01, 2025
Alex speaks with Neera Badhwar about her forthcoming paper, “There are Divinities in Liberal Market Societies Too,” exploring how liberal societies enable prosperity, intellectual virtue, and moral growth. Neera discusses key concepts like happiness and flourishing, critiques thinkers like Gerry Cohen, and reflects on the role of free markets and limited government in fostering human well-being.
References
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"There are Divinities in Liberal Market Societies Too" by Neera Badhwar (forthcoming in Social Philosophy and Policy, 2025)
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/social-philosophy-and-policy -
"The Theory of Moral Sentiments" by Adam Smith
https://www.amazon.ca/Theory-Moral-Sentiments-Adam-Smith/dp/0865970122 -
"If You're an Egalitarian, How Come You're So Rich?" by Gerry Cohen
https://a.co/d/6NyLaC2 -
"The Case Against Education: Why the Education System Is a Waste of Time and Money" by Bryan Caplan
https://www.amazon.ca/Case-Against-Education-System-Money/dp/0691174652 -
World Values Survey
https://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/ -
World Happiness Report
https://worldhappiness.report/ -
Human Progress Newsletter
https://humanprogress.org/
Thanks to our patrons, including Kris Rondolo, Amy Willis, and Christopher McDonald. To support the podcast, visit https://patreon.com/curioustask.